Richard Seale is in the UK next week on a bit of a mini-tour. Sadly the nearest he is coming to thefatrumpirate’s neck of the woods is Edinburgh. Which due to work commitments means missing out on meeting the man himself. More details of Richard’s tour can be found here and also here.
With his visit to the UK in mind I decided to contact Richard and see if he would be interested in answering a few questions for thefatrumpirate.com. I was quite surprised when he said yes and I was even more surprised when he replied in a matter of days to my questions.
Now firstly, I have not went back to Richard with regard the answers he has given or asked him to clarify any points etc. I was very grateful for his time and in time I will ask him for a few more details with regards the questions and a couple more issues which I would like to hear Richard’s opinions on.
The interview is fairly light hearted and I have deliberately avoided the “added sugar” debate in the main because Richard has made his views on this quite clear on numerous occasions already. Despite the nature of the interview Richard still gave us some very interesting answers and a very welcome revelation………
I hope you enjoy reading.
Question 1. The Foursquare Distillery is a long established family business passed down from generation to generation. When you were young did you have any ambitions or dreams of being anything other than world’s greatest rum distiller? I notice that you studied at Imperial College London.
No, I did not have ambitions to work in Rum. Although I have been around rum blending as long as I can remember, It was not what I expected to do. Rum was not seen as very important back then and that played a role in my outlook.
Question 2. I notice your love of horses. Do you find much time to ride with all that’s going on at the distillery?
I do not ride but I assist my father with a stable of race horses and the stable is about 5 mins drive from the Distillery.
Question 3. Living on Barbados and being part English you must have a fondness for
Cricket. What are you making of England’s capitulation at the World Cup? Or are you as much a purist with cricket and do not follow the “pyjama” quik cricket?
Cricket. What are you making of England’s capitulation at the World Cup? Or are you as much a purist with cricket and do not follow the “pyjama” quik cricket?I used to very passionate about Cricket and was a purist. The “pyjama quik cricket” never appealed.
Question 4. How is it that Foursquare Distillery can produce so many wonderful rums at such competitive prices?
Context. We are hardly cheap compared to brand anchors from Bacardi or Captain Morgan.
Question 5. A little discussion has taken place on the Internet particularly on the Rum Project. It has been suggested that Foursquare sell bulk rum (not something which should not come as a shock to anyone really). However it has been suggested that Plantation are using rum from your distillery in their rums. This has upset a few folk as Plantation are one of the major advocators of adding sugar (they even have a term for it called “dosage”). It is noted online that despite your differences of opinion you and Alexandre Gabriel are quite good friends. Could you explain the situation with Plantation?
Plantation use sugar (in relatively small quantities) because it is their practice from Cognac. It would be just fine if only the only rums with sugar were from our idiosyncratic cognac producer. Would then just be an academic point of interest. Alexandre does not mislead anyone about the practice (and never has). It is a philosophical point of difference between us but he is one of Rum’s greatest ambassadors. I am proud that he holds our rum in high esteem. He finishes it in cognac and the end product is very much their own.
Question 6. A recent update by Foursquare Distiilery hinted at collaborations between yourselves and Plantation. Any chance of an exclusive on what may or may not be happening this coming year?
We are still thinking about it but Alexandre loves to experiment. I am sure we will come up with something good.
Question 7. Your line of Doorly’s aside all your rums have quite distinctive and eye catching packaging. As someone who doesn’t go in for the marketing and PR shenanigans of some companies, how come their so much attention to detail when it comes to housing your rums?
I’m glad you are impressed !
Question 8. The packaging used (in particular on the RL Seales 10, Rum Sixty Six and the Foursquare Spiced) must be quite costly. How is it that in a world where “Premium” rums such as Zacapa and Dictador command price tags in excess of £50 per 70cl bottle Foursquare continue to offer an array of world class rum in a price range of £20 to £35 per bottle?
Honestly, our packaging costs are not out of the ordinary.
Question 9. If anything ever did happen to Foursquare Distillery and you were forced to work elsewhere, if you could choose any distillery in the world which one would it be? Which other rum producers or Master Distillers would you like to work with?Probably work in the small Islands, they have some very nice distilleries.
Question 10. Have you ever considered working abroad where regulations are more relaxed than Barbados. Have you ever thought of producing a product free from any legal constraints? Or as I suspect you may answer would you rather give up all together?
There are no legal constraints holding us back, only philosophical ones. They go with me everywhere.
Question 11. Other than products from your own distillery (okay I will let you have one in the list but only one!) which 5 rums would you recommend or which 5 rums do you consider any self respecting “rummy” should try?
You should learn rum from the pure pot still. Thankfully, there is Velier. Pick any five of them from the pot still.
Question 12. Do you consider Bajan rum to be the best in the world? What are your thoughts on the other rums produced on the island. Personally I find that the rum produced by the West Indies Rum Distillery Cockspur Fine Rum and particularly Cockspur 12 is criminally underrated? I also think that the older Mount Gay expressions are excellent as well.
The best rums are pure pot or blended rums (pot/column). This means Barbados, Jamaica or Guyana (and of recent St Lucia). The difference between these are cultural and your preference may lie with any of them. Of course Barbados Rum reflects the style we prefer. Agricole is another category altogether.
Question 13. I remember reading an article a while ago and actually seeing the most mythical of Foursquare’s products the Doorlys 12. Tell me is the Rum Sixty Six the same rum as the Doorlys 12 just for a differnet marker or are the two expressions entirely different? (If they are PLEASE tell me how I can get a bottle of Doorlys 12 as I think the XO is fantastic)
Doorlys 12 is different, it uses rum aged in Madeira casks in the blend. It will be available in the UK later this year.
Question 14. I notice you contribute on Social Media and you also communicate with some website owners. Tell me do you read many reviews of your rums? Have you ever been gobsmacked by what you have read?
Not many. I am more usually gobsmacked by the reviews of others. One reviewer picked a certain rum as “rum of the year” or some such similar title and I found it to be nothing more than flavoured, (heavily) sugared, industrial alcohol with a horrendous vile nose (sulphur, fusel oil). No distillery is mentioned which does not surprise me and seemed not to concern the reviewer ! One of us has to be wrong.
Question 15. You have a reputation for being quite outspoken and I have even seen you referred to as the “Rum Commander”. However, I also note that no one in the industry has a bad word to say about you. Do you think that you have found the right balance between being outspoken and being well for want of a better word, rude?
No one? not a bad word? really? Clearly I have not found the right balance, far too soft. Have to ramp it up.
Question 16. As far as I am aware Foursquare have never bottled anything older than 12 years. What are your thoughts on producers who regularly produce rums in excess of 20 years old? Do you think this is too old? Is there a reason why your main products are aged upto 12 years only?
There is no such thing as too old. It is just commercial reality that we do not set out to make rum to be suitable to age for such an extended period. You want to make the rum heavy enough to keep ageing and you have to also manage the casks. You cannot leave it in the same cask for 20 years. We have in a few years some rum at 15 but likely only a special edition. I think 20 year age claims unless from Jamaica or Guyana (or Agricole) should be treated with caution. I am always bewildered when overnight brands come out with incredible age claims.Question 17. As well as additives in rum would you also like to see the age of spirits regulated more closely? Producers such as yourselves El Dorado and Appleton all state that their rums are ALL a minimum of the age stated on the bottle. However some producers particularly those using Solero’s state the rum is upto a certain age. Do you think this confuses rum consumers or do you think Rum customers have become wise to this practice now?
Rum has done a very poor job of communicating real value to the consumer and this explains why we as a category have failed entirely the develop the super premium end of the market. As long as we think we can mislead the consumer with perceived value – and “solera” is a good example – rather than give the appropriate cues of real value we will continue to struggle. Rum can go the vodka route where value is solely derived from perception or we can challenge whisky and cognac and offer real value to the connoisseur. What is super premium rum? the package ? the colour? the sweetness? that is the vodka strategy. When super premium demands pot still and substantive ageing then we will command the market and take our rightful place alongside the best of whisky and cognac. Opinion leaders need to ask the right questions when reviewing – why the price premium?
So that’s that for our little Q&A session with Richard. It was very good of him to give us his time and I hope his trip to the UK is a great success.
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rev
February 1, 2017 at 9:38 pm
this is good stuff, thanks
Capn Jimbo's Rum Project
March 15, 2015 at 4:38 pm
Per your reference of the discussion of Seales and Plantation at the Project, wherein Richard was widely quoted. Its worth clarification that the notion that Seales supplies Plantation (who uses sugar) is somehow hypocritical is a completely made up and greatly exaggerated “issue”. As Richard made crystal clear in our discussion, although Seales does sell some bulk rum, NONE of it is sold directly to Plantation, but rather to a well known middleman from whom any of us can buy bulk. Richard remains absolutely firm that any rum he makes, or is labeled “Distilled by Foursquare” must be absolutely pure, no sugar or unlabeled additives or flavors of any kind, not to mention a completely honest and transparent statement of age (of the youngest rum in the bottle). I know of no Plantation rum that claims “distilled by Foursquare”, case closed.
I believe this issue was raised by a competitive rep, and was not at all well intended and should be considered for what it is. A cheap shot.
The point:
thefatrumpirate
March 15, 2015 at 5:17 pm
Your quote seems to have cut off Jimbo please feel free to add the remainder.
RIchard answered all the questions I posed. He had no problem with the question.
Thanks for your interest